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and he wouldn't even go in and say hello to her.
I mean, you know, in the theater, if you get good reviews...
can leave you vulnerable to all sorts of very frightening manipulation.
He's completely cut them out of his life...
And at one point, I noticed that Grotowski was at the center of one group...
because I really do think the theater can do something very important.
work on the play, what you've got to do tomorrow.
His laugh was so horrible.
No. Goals and plans are not-
He said you looked like you'd come back from a war.
And to not know what the next moment will bring...
So I said, “Well, if you could give me...
I mean, you're doing all these things, but are you doing them...
“I could always live in my art but never in my life.”
over our old way of life, and it is just great.
at the superficiality of these things.
and he was one of Scotland's - well, he was Scotland's greatest mathematician...
and he'd suddenly come upon André...
Apparently, George had been walking his dog in an odd section of town the night before...
So I went down to meet this flag maker that I'd heard about.
Of course, the problem is where to go.
and he totally failed to perceive anything else.
is to find out how to preserve the light, life, the culture...
That would be simply - simply so weird, Wally.
who was a friend and almost like a kind of a guru of André's.
and I went in to see her...
You know, when I was a young director, and I directed the Bacchae at Yale...
Because if you believe in omens, then that means that the universe -
Oh, yeah. This was me in the forest. See?
and maybe you can do it at home.
And I remember watching people preparing for this evening.
Sometimes I'd go off and meditate by myself.
I mean, he ate twice as much as Nicolas ate, you know?
that life existed on the planet.
I mean, our lives are tough enough as it is.
“These are all people who have in common the fact that they're questioning the theater.
because, I mean, if I'd listened to those people, I would have gone out there on stage...
I mean, I think that's why I never understand what's going on at a party.
There's something like a kaleidoscope, like a human kaleidoscope.
and raspberry soup and rabbit stew.
and about my girlfriend, Debby.
What we wanted to do was we wanted to take, you know -
And in all the work that I was involved in, there was always that danger.
So, of course - of course, I'm ignoring...
so long as I think of the world as consisting of, you know...
See, my actual response - I mean -
and you're not conscious of the reality of what's happening to you.
that the flag would pick up vibrations of a kind...
I'm reading Charlton Heston's autobiography.
And I would just wail and yell my lungs out out there on the dunes.
Then I thought, “That guy is me.”
And I had told him that I didn't want to come, because, really, I had nothing left to teach.
I mean, in other words, uh...
you feel for a moment that you've got your hands on something.
Wally!
and she was sort of cradling me in her arms, and then she started to cry too.
Finally, I got around to asking him what he'd been up to in the last few years.
There was something about this that was so powerful...
I mean, you know, we'd visit friends who had children...
I mean, that hostility was just some feeling that was, you know...
blindfold taken off, and run through these fields.
had brought musical instruments, a flute and a drum...
without having any particular thing that you were supposed to be doing.
because they had literally set up hundreds of candles and torches.
- Yeah. I know what you mean. - I mean, the doctor didn't see my mother.
I mean, they would have just shrunk, you know, just in horror...
They're feeling that there'll be these pockets of light...
of professional or literary people...
What kind of things did I like? What kind of people did I really want to be with? You know?
You know, and I could do things like go out to the highway...
I mean, first of all, there are some pretty good reasons for being frightened.
I mean - I mean, you found the handprint in the book...
huddling together for warmth against the cold.
to somehow sort of strip away every scrap of purposefulness...
Now, you could easily see, 'cause we're talking about group trance...
that every action of ours should be a prayer...
was eating a little bowl of milk - hot milk with rice -
I went completely on impulse.
And somebody else wanted to bring a large bowl of water...
And we came to a great circle of fire, with music and hot wine...
I mean, I didn't know how long I'd be in there -
- Very good. - I'll - I'll also have one. Thank you.
And then on the final day of our stay in the forest...
that just help your audience to sleep more comfortably...
Uh, then-then they got me to my feet and they took photographs of me, naked.
Because that's what you do, out of habit?
and you can't just believe absolutely anything.
you might have the actors playing the mother, the son and the uncle...
I've lived in the same room with this person, but I haven't really seen them.
I mean, when I was in Israel a little while ago -
don't in any way affect us?
He's a Swedish physicist. Gustav Björnstrand.
Because the wonderful thing about scientific theories about things...
just playing with their plastic duck...
I mean, very few things happen now like that moment...
By 5:00 I'd finally made it to the post office...
to, uh, take everybody to, uh, Everest...
What does that mean? A wife.
and still have been supporting his family?
to this very strong, deep reaction against science that we're seeing now...
And I tried to follow his voice along the sand.
I put it on a piece of paper, I outlined it with a pen...
I just instinctively sort of- You know, if it says something like, uh...
And once again you don't know quite what you should do next.
was how to have a roof that would stay on the building...
except, uh, the few little things that they wanted to see.
the great Polish theater director...
You go dancing or something. You're floating free.
That's interesting, Wally.
And he was telling story after story about his mother.
which was always involved with either movement, rhythm, repetition or song -
And he'd have talks with the fauns.
six months later, in France, with some friends...
Grotowski. Is he still thin?
a little tiny room that had once had tools in it.
I mean, we're just walking around in some kind of fog.
But then that feeling goes quite quickly.
Seven swimming shrimp.
that they realized that to go off together in the forest was much more important...
So, two weeks later, I came back.
And it's just unbelievably beautiful.
You see, he'd invited me to come to teach that summer in Poland.
So, at random, I picked one out, I opened it up...
I think that, uh, purposefulness...
suppose you're going through some kind of hell in your own life.
Maybe that's true. But I mean, isn't there any kind of writing or any kind of a play -
And, I mean, I just - I just don't know how anybody could enjoy anything more...
I mean, uh - I mean, at least a few years ago people who really cared about the theater...
I think it would just blow your brains out.
I mean, he could literally go like this -
And when I met him at Findhorn, he said to me, “Where are you from?”
Well, so that was - that was Christmas.
I mean, they're - they're fantasy. They're part of a dream life.
And now everybody's redefined the theater in such a trivial way...
You see, I've had a very rough time in the last few months, Wally.
based on the state of the airplane and the state of the pilot.
I mean, what was amazing in the workshops I led...
I enjoy going through the notebook...
Conference on paratheatrical work then.
which would always happen after about five minutes...
this flag flying over us...